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Date: 17 November 2007 Time: 11.00h-12.30h Present: all representatives from the studbooks of UK, France, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark and The Netherlands Not present: Germany (Mrs. Elisabeth Jensen) Chairman: Mr. Alexandre Meybeck
· Evaluation of the discussion > yesterday’s meeting minutes · Round table discussion · Determining and brainstorming on subjects for next meeting · Possible use of Forum as a tool for ongoing discussion · Determining country for next meeting · Closure
16. Minutes of 16-11-07
The minutes of yesterday’s meeting are discussed briefly and all remarks brought up by the participants will be implemented in the minutes. The final version of all minutes from this weekend will be posted to all studbooks within one week. All members can then take a proper look at the minutes. Request to all studbooks: please submit any remarks or additional points for the minutes within 2 weeks. A definite final version of all minutes will then appear on the forum.
17. Round table discussion
Various questions exist concerning identification. All questions are divided into different subjects and discussed per subject: passports, universal life numbers, etc.
Passports
The EU law states that only 1 passport may be issued for a pony, which should be issued by the organization registering the pony at birth.
Question: do all studbooks issue passports for all the foals born?
Netherlands: yes, and still issue registration certificate as an extra, which belongs to the passport. These two documents may not be separated. The aim of this system was to make it easier to add extra information, such as predicates. It would however be better to put it all in one, to make sure the passport includes as much information on the pony as possible. Note: the registration certificate includes the certificate for ownership.
- Sweden: yes, and special certificate for ownership
- Belgium: yes, every pony born in Belgium receives a passport
- Denmark: yes, for the last 8 years. A special certificate for ownership is issued as well.
- France: yes, since 1976. A special certificate for ownership is issued as well.
- UK: yes, passport only (certificates of registration are an exception). Note: the change of ownership takes up to 3 weeks. During this time, a letter will be issued to state the ownership and the fact that the passport is with the studbook for registration.
- Norway: yes, since 2000. The ownership is included in the passport. Change of ownership is executed within a week.
- Germany: yes, since 1998. Every foal born and registered receives a passport and special certificate for ownership; for older ponies an exchange of the papers are/were possible. Note: the information from Germany was added to the minutes by Mrs. Jensen after the meeting, as she were not present on 17-11-07.
Question: what to do when a pony has no passport and has been registered at birth in another studbook? Belgium presents a solution, namely to send back the certificate of registration to the studbook of origin.
UK: if the owner of a foreign pony wishes to receive an English passport (to be able to include grading achievements), all original details are kept in the new passport and the original studbook is informed of the issue of a new passport.
General rule: if a document is re-issued or modified for a pony registered in another studbook, this should always be done in coordination with the studbook of birth.
Generalization of universal life number
This will be a point of discussion for years to come.
Question > who already uses the 15 digit life number?:
The Netherlands: yes Sweden: not yet, it is planned and foreseen within 1-2 years Belgium: yes, since this year Denmark: yes UK: yes Norway: no, start next year France: yes, for 2 years already Germany: yes, since 2000
Note: the information from Germany was added to the minutes by Mrs. Jensen after the meeting, as she were not present on 17-11-07.
This will make things easier for the central database > in a few years all information will be available and easier to retrieve. A very technical discussion awaits us for the next couple of years, on harmonization of various tables of codes. This will probably be an important topic for next meeting. Micro chipping
What is already done so far:
The Netherlands: all new born foals and mares are chipped, for the last 2-3 years already. This is mandatory for sports. All ponies must be chipped before July 2008. 80% has been done so far. It is not allowed to transport a pony without a chip.
Sweden: chipping is done, but voluntarily. It is only mandatory for sports.
Belgium: all ponies must be chipped before July 2008.
Denmark: the owner can use a brand mark (which includes the number) or chip or both.
UK: the government is still discussing chipping. The rule was going to be effective from January 2008, but is now postponed to the middle of 2009. It will then be mandatory for all horses and ponies to be chipped. The forest is now considered to be one holding/farm, so the ponies do not need a chip until they leave the farm. Ownership branding is still done, but not individually.
Norway: all foals are chipped, since 2000. Nowadays, all animals are chipped.
France: all foals and mothers are chipped. All animals must be chipped before 1 January 2008.
Germany: the owner can use a brand mark (which includes the number) or chip (belongs to the breeding organisation). Note: the information from Germany was added to the minutes by Mrs. Jensen after the meeting, as she were not present on 17-11-07.
Height
Problems occur (especially with riding ponies), with ponies becoming too high.
The new international rule for riding ponies is as follows: ponies may be 1.48 m without shoes, or 1.49 with shoes. This measurement includes a tolerance until 1.51 m for shod ponies (only for international competition). In France, this international rule will determine the national rules for competition.
UK: the height problem is a major concern for the mother studbook.
Important suggestion: when you put information on height in the passport, the exact measuring moment should be included.
UK: over height stallions should not be breeding. Height x height creates higher ponies. Normally, at 5 years of age, the stallions get license for life. However, if stallions at 5 years old are too big (1.50, 1.51), they only receive a temporary license and are measured again when they are 6 years old. Any animal over 1.48 m (without shoes) is not considered a NF pony >1.48 m is considered the final limit. If there is a problem, unshod measurements are not accepted. Only a valid certificate from the central measurement institute (measurement is carried out in a special facility) is accepted, and ponies there are also measured unshod.
The UK will distribute sheets including their grading procedures to all participants
18. Use of Forum
Please all take a look at the forum and if you have any recommendations or changes, please do not hesitate to contact Thea.
The Netherlands will put in an extra effort, to make it work. Note that all countries should put in information: the forum only works with input of every country. It is important to have this communication together, as was seen in the meeting yesterday.
19. International Judges
The UK passes around a list of recommended judges. If amendments are to be made, these can be put on the forum. Countries are entitled to ask whoever they want, but this is a list of judges recommended which may be useful.
20. Determining country for next meeting
The UK puts itself forward, so the next international meeting in 2009 will take place in the UK.
The next meeting will take place in 2 years, in autumn (around October). If problems should occur during this period, the meeting can be forwarded. 21. Final point: interest in an annual international show?
Because of the 50th anniversary of the Dutch studbook, The Netherlands organized extra (international) items in shows, including an international mare show. The idea arose to make this a kind of tradition and yearly organize such an international show in another country.
UK: costs are an important (constraining) factor. Perhaps we should not want to organize such an event every year, but once every two years or on special occasions. The Danish society proposes to have an international show in Denmark in 2010, as they will celebrate their 50th anniversary that year.
A new topic on the forum will be introduced, namely whether it would be an idea to open up national shows for foreign ponies. In the UK, all ponies can already join in English shows. 22. Closure of the meeting by Mr. Meybeck
Thanks to all participants for coming. Thanks to the Dutch studbook, especially Mr. Groot Kormelink and Thea Thijssen, for the organization. Finally, special thanks to Sarie Thijssen for taking the minutes.
S. Thijssen November 20, 2007 |